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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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 Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Stairway to Architecture |
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Last month I started a little study of the path to licensure as an architect -- examining statistics of colleges, interns, and ARE pass-rates. If you're interested in the practice of architecture, you might be interested in the results so far. It's posted at http://www.stairwaytoarchitecture.com.
-- Matt |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think your charts are aesthetically interesting but hard to read.
I am not sure passing the ARE is a good indication of success. Particularly if enrollment is exceeding expansion of the field of architecture. In other words more people are getting degrees than the jobs which are available. I think just tracking the average income of graduates would give the best possible indication of the value which society places on them. (thus the quality of their education)
I would think universities track enrollment vs. completion for their own purpose whether they publish that info or not.
Personally I don't think we have made any improvement since the Boyer report or the previous 20 years for that matter.
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be delighted to find a single school of architecture that tracks the careers of its graduates.
I think we have a long way to go, and we won't know how far until we make a decent map of the existing terrain.
The charts are much more easily understood when printed out; the parts are meant to be seen in the context of the whole. If you're interested in the numbers behind them, that information is at NCARB.org and NAAB.org. |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I don't want to print it out, I want to read it on the monitor.
That is my point. I don't know what they would gain by tracking the careers of their graduates. If they are not doing it than I assume they agree.
If we are looking for specific effects of the Boyer Report I don't think the number of practicing architects is a good indicator because it is very effected by economics. In other words the more incentive there is to hold a professional license the more people will get one. There is no doubt that there are thousands of architects who would like to start a private practice but do not do so because of economic reasons.
What is your goal for this site?
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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My goal is to chart the path to licensure for graduates of accredited programs of architecture in the US. In order to do that, additional information (which has already been collected) must be made public. I am hoping to get support for the release of the information by illustrating the compelling need for a complete picture.
The disconnect between the acadamy and practice has never been wider in my lifetime. I would like to see that gap narrowed, but I don't think it is possible to identify strategies to do that while we are ignorant about the current state of affairs.
The opinions about this situation are legion. In order to begin to find prudent reforms we need to know where we stand currently.
I'm aware of no other licensed profession which requires 8 and 10 year internships. If I were embarking on a career in this field, I'd want to know what the environment is. It's incumbent on practitioners to address this problem. It may already be too late to fix it. We don't know. And we should.
The universities in this country are taking $700,000,000 a year to educate architects. Approximately 2,500 people complete the ARE annually. Slightly over a quarter of a million dollars per (excluding the time and money spent in the IDP).
I don't feel like it's going out on a limb to say the system is not optimized. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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The path is already well defined as far as I can tell. The proper schooling (varies by school) minimum internship (which is rather complicated) and pass the ARE. I don't find eight to ten years of internship as being a requirement although that may be the average length of time between when a person graduates and when they take or pass the ARE.
I think there is value to the education other than passing the ARE. I think a lot of graduates go on to do other things.
Yes I think anyone considering this field would want to know what the environment is and I think that can be summed up by looking at the average income of graduates. But when universities are turning people away because of an over abundance of applicants they have no need to attract more people into the field.
There is a lot of information like this available:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos038.htm
The Boyer report of coarse talked about the field architecture and not simply how kids are taught or how many architects there are per capita.
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link, that's a helpful site.
Aspirants in other professions are not taking this long to satisfy the requirements; why is that?
A degree from an accredited program is a prerequisite to licensure. I could care less what non-accredited programs teach, but as a minimum, an accredited program should play a responsible part in preparing its students for practice, or even preparing them to prepare for practice.
Folks who want to enrich their educational experience with a swash of architecture school don't need to do it in an accredited program. Folks who are serious about making buildings do. Any program that is accredited is subject to scrutiny on these criteria; they are necessary (and certainly not sufficient) measures of their effectiveness at achieving their stated goals.
What exactly are the schools selling? |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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I just think it has a lot to do with economics. Doctors probably benefit greatly by being licensed where that is probably not the case in architecture (or many other fields for that matter).
I think people may go in to accredited universities with the intention of becoming an architect but for various reasons never do become one. One reason is that a lot of building design does not require a license. Another reason is that there are only so many jobs available.
I think schools are selling a degree that is somewhat general purpose like many other types of degrees. You could become a clothing designer, an estimator, etc..
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Perhaps that is what the schools are doing. Do you think the people who are signing their checks are aware of it? |
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O-Archy
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Victor, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps the Planning and Building departments in all jurisdictions need to be held accountable to a single standard of professional credentials for buildings...
In Montana, it is my understanding that no architectural stamp is required for an 8-plex or smaller residential project, In Idaho, a triplex or smaller requires no stamp. Some states disallow any (wood frame) structures over one and half stories without being stamped, other arbitrary criteria exist (amount of sq. footage, mixed uses etc.).
All commercial projects should be stamped by an architect. The IBC states 'registered design professional' ... which has created the loophole for poor designs by uncredentialed people and maybe threatens public health, safety and welfare.
It is incumbent on the lobbying efforts of the AIA to get this message across.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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The people signing the checks are the students and their parents. Can anyone know the future? I would guess a lot of people get into all sorts of degree programs and never complete their initial goal. For example someone who intended to become a doctor may become a medical researcher. How many people majoring in literature want to become a novelist?
I think anyone who wants to take the time to evaluate the prospects for an architecture degree could come up with a pretty good idea that simply having the degree will not guarantee you will be practicing. It looks like, from your own site, that a license is not even a requirement for teaching.
Architecture is (unfortunately for architects) a very competitive field. Particularly if the emphasis is place on the art of architecture vs. the technical aspects. And also particularly true in a down turning economy.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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That isn't exactly true, I can do some commercial projects under 5000 sq. ft.
I don't know of any documented evidence that shows a correlation between safety and an architects stamp. Safety issues are generally addressed by building codes and engineers.
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O-Archy
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Victor, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Chris,
That is part of my point, some states allow greater or lesser projects to be done by building designers, and / or engineers. I'm pretty sure that you are a conscientious practitioner of the craft... I like several of your posted projects and commentary on wide-ranging threads. If there were a clear standard (nationwide?) of project type / scope / size that defined when a architect's stamp is required, the public would be well-served. Even having an energy audit of a design prior to permit review would be beneficial to the greater good.
However, until the general public understands the value of having credentialed professionals designing, drawing AND overseeing construction, we'll continue to get poor performing buildings, extensive litigation etc. The paradigm shift is upon us, and I believe BIM is a sign of the future possibilities, where the virtual building is constructed and the model shared / examined by the necessary trades to optimize assembly / eliminate conflicts during the construction process.
The halls of academe have been dismally lacking in transferring this knowledge to the future practitioners, we can all point out the problems, and experience / internship is a sure way to gain greater knowledge.
One of my favorite 'learnings' was how to be a critical, non-linear thinker, to explore the alternatives, create solutions to the problems presented. I certainly am not getting wealthy doing this thing called architecture, but it is a terrific profession. Economics and free market forces have 'dumbed down' many professions, like the commodity vs. craft thread shows.
Cheers,
Mike
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csintexas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I'm certainly not arguing against professionalism or training standards. (or anything that the Boyer report said for that matter)
As regards to the topic I just don't know exactly what can be accomplished by collecting more statistics.
I think a lot of what the Boyer report was crit'ing is what you just mentioned a disconnect between practitioners and students and a general lack of appreciation for architecture by the general public. Here again I don't see a direct correlation between these things and the number of people passing the ARE. A lot of the suggestions the Boyer report made where not very tangible so it is difficult to gauge any change.
If it was my goal to gauge the relative success of architectural training I guess I would poll businesses who hire graduates rather than look at how many go on to pass the ARE because I think that is very economically driven.
If I where wanting to gauge how architecture is perceived by the culture I would look at how often and what kind of coverage it gets in the media and as far as residential goes whether or not market share is increasing.
I am a very big proponent of changing the current education and licensing system though.
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 537
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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taking more polls won't move the discussions away from the finger-pointing that continues to characterize this debate. Accurate statistics about what is going on would provide an opportunity for folks who care about this issue to examine how our current system is performing and decide if it needs a tune-up or an overhaul. The statistics I'm asking for used to be public knowledge. Somehow, in the past twenty years, they no longer are. I found it helpful to know this information when I was a student and an intern.
The Boyer Report was specific in its recommendations. There was consensus about implementing it. I don't think a sub-50% licensure rate among faculty of architecture schools was among the outcomes Boyer contemplated. I don't think the Boyer Report envisioned that in 2007 more than 40% of graduates of accredited programs had never been employed in a practicing office prior to graduation. Nor that less than half of graduates would go on to become licensed.
And I don't think many of us today are aware of these facts. I hope to change at least that circumstance.
This effort has nothing to do with perceptions or media coverage or assessing the intellectual value of an architecture education or the appreciation from the general public or the culture at large or anyones motivation or lack thereof.
We have a system in place for people to become licensed architects. How is it working? That's it.
It's ridiculous that someone even has to ASK these rudimentary questions. |
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