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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: World Coordinates, survey layout Hello Friends, Here is a tough one, I think. Situation: I've done drawings done for small park, in PCadd. I used imported ACAD survey information provided by a Municipality for my base information. I imported the survey, and scaled and rotated the drawings to fit my 24" x 36" sheet. My drawings were exported to .dwg using PCadd 'Save As' function, and sent back to the Municipality. Problem: The Municipality is complaining because the drawings are not in world coordinates, and so they cannot simply import my dwg drawings into their overall cadd maps. Secondly, they want to be able to use a survey/ computer layout system in the field to stake out the work. My drawings apparently are not suitable for this system. Question: Has anyone here come up against this sort of situation, and how have you addressed it? I know that I will definitely need to be able to provide acad drawings in world coordinates to them in the future, if I am to be able to continue to do work for them- in PCadd. This is an issue of interoperability and communication with ACAD that has come up before, and seems to be a growing concern for work with engineers and municipalities. If I had ACAD lt on a windows partition on my computer, could I import my exported dwg files back into ACAD, over the original survey, and have the coordinates preserved? I know there are some ACAD users who read and post here. Any thoughts? Thanks for any assistance or commiseration. _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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huc Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 683 Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Arvada, CO)	Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: The DWG data can be used for field layout -- we were doing that via DXF and DWG for years in the lower mainland, long before DWG was an option. The issue is they may need to move the data into their coordinate system. In the case of field data for layout we typically never moved anything as the Surveyors were integrating data from so many sources they must moved it into the right spot based on a site grid and/or property lines included with the PCD dWG File. The PCD DWG file is not going to be in the same coordinate system as their drawing. The data needs to be opened & moved into the desired coordinate system (and orientation in your case). That works needs to be done in ACAD and can be done running Acad in Parallels, Boot Camp, Fusion or your Windows emulation of choice. In fact we used to do that too when necessary. Hope that helps -- it's all doable. Either by you or by them.
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Alfred Scott Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 749 Location: Richmond, VA	Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:58 pm    Post subject: There's a Benchmark tool in TopoTools and a similar type of tool in Paolo's Topography Tools for setting the origin in a state plane coordinate system. This is for the PowerCADD global origin, which is difficult to set by typing numbers—I barely understand it. I don't know if the DWG translator handles the global origin, but it should and it's a simple thing I believe. Alfred
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huc Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 683 Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Arvada, CO)	Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Alfred Scott wrote: I don't know if the DWG translator handles the global origin, but it should and it's a simple thing I believe. Not that I've seen and it's been on my formal wish list since 2006 and informally requested prior to that. _________________ I hope that helps Cheers Brian
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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Thanks Brian and Alfred, I can see that an ability to 'grab, maintain, and export' a UTM or lat/ long information reference would be difficult. But it would be a huge help in maintaining our ability to use PCadd on many projects. Every time something like this comes up, it just gives engineers (some) and municipalities (most) an opportunity to claim that acad is the accepted standard, and the only cadd option for drawings. Perhaps there could be a new origin point feature/ element/ thingy. For example, what if I could call the City survey department, and get them to tell me the coordinates of one or two or three specific points on the site. And then, what if I could add a symbol to each of these points on my drawingt and tag or attach the location data to them. If PCadd could save this referenced data while exporting, I could then include the locations of the three reference points, and their locations information in my email with the drawings. At least this might make the inserting of my drawings into the recipients cadd files simpler. BTW, I would dearly love to see a setting in PCadd with an unlimited sheet size, so that I could save a drawing at 1:1, and then export it. Maybe this would be the time to insert the world coordinate reference points, as I would resize the drawing to 1:1 before saving as a dwg. But otherwise, I fear the autocadd LT on a windows partition/ emulation system may be necessary. Sigh. Thanks for helping with this query. Hot and sunny here, and we're still busy. Touch wood. _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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jasonlocher Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 649 Location: Austin, Texas	Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: I'm sure Flip Vertical Axis just helps the whole conversion process.
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Alfred Scott Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 749 Location: Richmond, VA	Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Damon, As I understand it, the method that Paolo uses (and which I adopted) is the industry standard method of setting a global origin. Basically, you take a point in the drawing and 'say' that this is point - nice flowers -,YYYYYY in the state plane coordinate system and then the software works out the global origin backwards from that. So you can set things up in PowerCADD using either the Benchmark Tool in TopoTools or the Global Origin in Paolo's Topography tools. Then you can use a leader text object to leave a note in the drawing so the AutoCAD user can see that this is point - nice flowers -,YYYYYY in the state plane coordinate system. You can also leave a North Arrow from them to rotate the view, if that's necessary. Alfred
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Alfred Scott Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 749 Location: Richmond, VA	Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: In my explanation I was using a series of the letter X and I see the forum has trapped this out and substituted "nice flowers". Alfred
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pbacot Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 959 Location: Northern California	Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Damon wrote: Thanks Brian and Alfred, BTW, I would dearly love to see a setting in PCadd with an unlimited sheet size, so that I could save a drawing at 1:1, and then export it. Maybe this would be the time to insert the world coordinate reference points, as I would resize the drawing to 1:1 before saving as a dwg. . Why would you do that? I would love endless or near endless drawing space with a page 1 in the center. _________________ Peter B
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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Hello, Alfred, your suggestion to use a specified point, and a text note to tell them what the coordinates are could work. But given that my drawings are done over their imported survey information, they already have thousands of objects for which they can immediately identify; rotating and resizing should be very quick. However, my very strong suspicion is that the survey department is thoroughly unwilling to do any of this work (this information from my wife, who works at the City). So, following Brian's advice (sort of), my current plan is this: parallels, windows XP and then ProgeCadd to do the final work. I will do my work in PCadd, save as a dwg, import into ProgeCadd, resize, rotate and fuss with text, and then drop my stuff over the original survey, and send it off. I spoke to the ProgeCadd people in Portland Or, and it seems that I am not the only one considering such a move. ProgeCadd is about $350.00 US, and more capable than ACAD Lt, and fully compatible. Or so I'm told. 30 day download trial for ProgeCadd. at http://www.icadsales.com/ Seems a hopeless mess, for sure, but maybe it will really work. Yes, I do know there was a thread about ACAD on the mac, and I will go back to that thread if I have anything useful to offer. Thanks to all. _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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